“Well then, listen. At one of the meetings held at “Mayak” conducted by the chairman of a special committee formed to solve the problem of creating an atomic bomb in the USSR, Lavrentiy Beria raised the issue of providing milk and dairy products to the employees of our plant who suffered during the tests and received irradiation exposure. To be fair, it must be said that he resolved organizational issues quickly, without delays. All his instructions to the party and Soviet local authorities were executed instantly. So thnt time, the next day, a decree was issued by the Sverdlovsk Regional Executive Committee on the transfer of the state farm to us to create our own dairy production and provide milk products to all who were affected. Thus, the Kuluyevsky State Farm with seventeen thousand hectares of arable land was transferred to “Mayak”. And here a rather large cattle making quite a big herd of dairy cows arrived in railway carriages. There were pig farms and a few flocks of sheep in the state farm. The director appointed a good person who had a special education – Pavel Vasilyevich. I must say that the entire vast territory of the plant, due to its special secrecy, was fenced around the perimeter with barbed wire and strictly guarded. But along the same perimeter, the additional ten kilometers of space in front of the fence were also controlled by our guards, special services, rangers. Together with the state farm we got a lake on the border with the Sverdlovsk region, which even before the war was chosen by the Ural military district. Stocked up with valuable breeds of fish and good for hunting. In the end, at the request of the administration of the military district, they began with us to use this already mastered lake as if we were giving it them for rent. On the other, opposite shore, our guys had already built something like a summer holiday camp for fishing. By the way, I forgot to say that, in order to fully equip the state farm with people which were greatly missed, they began on the order of the same Lavrentiy Pavlovich to release the prisoners from the camps for settlement. In short, the problems were solved quickly, but the one not taken into account was that the state farm was two hundred kilometers away from the plant and the milk managed to sour along the way or, in some cases, was beaten from shaking into butter. Another problem was that the state farm was still far away from the railroad, more than thirty kilometers away, and this did not allow the construction of a dairy and meat processing complex there. The question was raised about the acquiring of another state farm, closer to the plant, and such one was found – just fourteen kilometers from us. A modern dairy and meat factory were built there. As for the first far-distant state farm, it was also left to us, and with time it was possible to organize a fodder supplies for the complete satisfaction of the near state farm. I had a direct relation to all this since all agricultural equipment: tractors, combines, seeders, threshers, dump trucks, and everything else was received and distributed to the directors of state farms. At my suggestion, at the Office of Workers' Supply (URS), an agricultural department was created and strengthened by worthy personnel. Over time, at the expense of the plant we built good roads in the far state farm and the railroad. Once in 1950, Pavel Vasilyevich, the director of the far state farm, called and invited me to hunt, speaking in some mysterious, intriguing way. I decided to go. Only on the spot he told me that Zhukov himself would come. This was a real intriguing development! Indeed, at a certain time, there arrived several cars and about eight well-equipped hunters. Among them was Georgiy Konstantinovich, at that time being the commander of the Urals Military District. I don’t know who was with him because everyone was dressed alike, I think that there was the guard and also the closest deputies.”

“I wonder what impression the disgraced marshal made on you?”

“I saw him only on the hunt. Of course, there was some kind of power in him. I was introduced to him, said about my post at the plant. A strong, masculine handshake, a close look…

The hunt was successful, we shot a lot of game, ducks mostly. Then everyone was invited to the fish soup, which was cooked in advance by the workers of our state farm.”

“What was the situation with alcohol?”

“We drank a little cognac, if you are interested, then Georgiy Konstantinovich was satisfied with just one glass. But there were a lot of jokes and he also told. He perfectly understood that he was the center of our attention, he behaved with dignity not allowing any indulgence or condescension towards himself. I say this to the fact that before the hunt he was offered a lucrative position among us, he immediately refused, and made a remark to the obliging subordinates.”

“And how many times did you meet marshal?”

“Four times. And I remember each. Worthy, significant, man of few words. I am proud that fate has presented me such a grand gift.”

“I have read the books of your colleagues on the creation of an atomic bomb in the USSR you supplied me with sufficiently: “The Secrets of the Fortieth” by V. N. Novoselov, V. S. Tolstikova, “My Atomic Age” by P. A. Zhuravlev, “About Contemporaries”, “Kurchatov's Tragedy” by B. V. Brokhovich, “Atomic Firstborn of Russia”, “First Steps” by GA In Lukhin. Several times there was a completely natural question about the role of Beria in this large-scale, unparalleled project. The book “My Atomic Age” mentions the arrival of Clement Efremovich Voroshilov in Chelyabinsk-40. I will cite this episode literally:

“Once in the early fifties, K. E. Voroshilov, having checked the Sverdlovsk military district, turned out to be close to Chelyabinsk-40 and decided to visit it because he had never been there before. The marshal, without any warning, arrived at the entrance to the zone along with a motorcade of several guards and military officials accompanying him. The duty officer of the guard, having learned who had arrived, refused to let the marshal into the zone and informed his superiors about the marshal. Further on, through the military commanders of the unit guarding the zone the message about the unexpected appearance of the marshal reached the authorized Council of Ministers for Chelyabinsk-40, Lieutenant-General ЕМ. Tkachenko, who himself also did not dare let the marshal's car pass, but reported to Moscow personally to Beria. He reacted instantly, “Marshal has nothing to do in Chelyabinsk-40!”

As a result, after a long wait for about an hour, the head of the guard told Voroshilov that he could not let him in because of his unexpected arrival – they weren't ready to receive him. This is how K. E. Voroshilov, Marshal of the Soviet Union, a member of the Presidium, Vice-Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR, was not allowed into the secret Chelyabinsk-40.”

“Well, what surprised you here, the principled position of Beria?”

“I was amazed, and not the first time, by the power of this person. In our long conversations you mentioned him more than once, and I noticed the words about him were not very flattering. Therefore such a question arose, that maybe, really, there were no exceptions made even to members of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU then.”

“Yes, it was like that. Voroshilov really had nothing to do with the atomic theme, so he didn’t have the right to be on secret objects. In any case, the visits of such high-ranking officials were planned and agreed in advance.”

“Then let's put the question like this: did you personally meet Beria? And if so, and I know that there were such meetings, what impression did he make?”

“To tell you the truth, not very good. He talked to everyone haughtily and indulgently. He restrained himself only with those who were favored by Stalin, for example, with Kurchatov, Muzrukov, Tsarevsky, the head of construction at “Mayak”. By the way, only these three had the right to report to Stalin weekly bypassing Beria. This, of course, affected him but that was the will of the leader. In 1953, after his death, Beria was soon arrested and he himself was later shot. It was a real shock for us. Who then, when he visited us, could know what sinister and bloody things this crazy person had done. But he was our direct boss all these years.”

“Well, did you have to communicate with him?”

“More with his whims and nervousness. Well, and with him, of course. After all, according to the position, I had to personally meet him during each of his visits, provide transportation and escort together with his guards on the machines if the equipment suddenly broke down and an urgent replacement of the car was needed…

For example, Beria categorically refused to get into our “Pobeda”. He had such an arrogant feature in the conduct. Being a member of the Politburo, Marshal of the Soviet Union. And we had to urgently request ZIS- 100 and ZIM from the ministry and the central board. There had necessarily to be a gun in the car in case he unexpectedly would like to shoot game on the way to the “Mayak” because it is almost six hours of travel. During his first visits to our plant, Lavrentiy Pavlovich flew by plane to Sverdlovsk, there he was given a personal car and the second one with guards, and I accompanied everybody with my own transport. Later he came on a personal train with a personal armored limousine. I had more trouble because it was necessary to fill the train with water and it was difficult to do in winter. I had to mobilize all the watering machines we had. Relief came only after his departure.”

“And what do you think about the opinion that without Beria the USSR would never have an atomic bomb?”

“I agree with those who say so. I should admit he was a talented organizer, he had big power in his hands. Everybody was afraid and fluttered before him all. As for the bomb, we would have created it without his participation, another thing is that it would not have happened in 1949, but, let's say, two or three years later.”

“Well, the last question on this topic. Academician I. V. Kurchatov. You have repeatedly said about him: the greatest and indisputable authority for everyone who worked with him. I want to know your comment on his behaviour after the arrest of the all-powerful Beria. As a member of the CPSU Central Committee Kurchatov was asked to speak at the plenum and declare that Beria in every way prevented to creation of the first atomic bomb. Kurchatov categorically refused to speak and stated directly, “If not for Beria, there would have been no bomb.”

“If Kurchatov said so, then he, of course, knew better. Therefore, I cannot comment on his statements.”

“Did you ever see Stalin? If so, where and when?”

“Just once. On December 8, 1951, the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR “On awarding orders and medals to scientific, engineering and technical personnel, workers and employees of ministries, departments and personnel of the Military Ministry of the USSR, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR, who distinguished themselves during the special task of the Government” was signed. By this decree I was awarded the Order of the Red Banner of Labor. Soon all of us, and it was a rather large number of people, were invited to the Kremlin. Exactly at noon, the doors opened wide and Joseph Vissarionovich surrounded by the members of the Politbyuro appeared. All rose and applauded at their appearance. The award ceremony was held in a festive atmosphere. The awards were presented alternately by N. M. Shvernik and K. E. Voroshilov. I received my order from the hands of Nikolay Mikhailovich, he friendly patted me on the shoulder, wished me health and further success. Then there was a solemn banquet right there in the Kremlin. Stalin was present but not for very long. Under the continuous applause he drank a few glasses of wine and left. This was my only meeting with him.”

“In one of the conversations you mentioned that there was another meeting with Shvernik.”

“Yes, there was such a meeting, unexpected and pleasant, for me, of course. During the period of eight years of work at “Mayak”, under my command worked the chief mechanic of the motor transport industry Yuriy Maksimovich Sharapov. An intelligent, competent specialist, who managed to organize the service of his unit smartly and rationally. Being his direct manager I always liked his approach to the duties, the desire to redo everything and change it for the better. On top of that, he besides fell in love with my secretary, Vera, Vera Nikolaevna, and at the very end of the forties they got married. At that time the personnel management order was received to transfer Yuriy Maksimovich to a new responsible job as the head of the motor transport department of the Pskov region. After several years a new promotion came up as the deputy minister of motor transport of the RSFSR. Having had already moved to Lermontov I often traveled on business trips mainly to the capital where I had the support and patronage of the all-powerful Efim Pavlovich Slavsky, and the acquaintance with the Sharapov family also proved useful. In any case, we often met, called each other and together spent our free time when they came to have rest in Mineralnye Vody. Once, while in Moscow, I called Yuriy Maksimovich home and received an invitation for the birthday occasion of his mother, a responsible employee of the apparatus of the Central Committee of the CPSU. An official ZIM was sent for me and I was taken to an assigned cottage somewhere in the Moscow region. I was greeted cordially, the birthday girl was still a relatively young and beautiful. A government machine drove up and three men came out, one of them was Nikolay Mikhailovich Shvernik. The festive table was rich although there were not so many guests, about fifteen people. After the next toast, Verochka took the word and introduced me to the guests, she found warm, grateful words for this and recalled the years of work under my supervision. After such attention to my personality Shvernik said the words of gratitude to all the participants of the atomic project. I thanked him in reply for appreciating my modest role and trust from the country's leadership, because he, the then chairman of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Council, signed a decree in 1951 awarding all distinguished participants of the project with orders and medals.”